Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/18/2002 01:37 PM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
March 18, 2002
1:37 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lyda Green, Chair
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chair
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Jerry Ward
Senator Bettye Davis
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 346
"An Act relating to statewide school district correspondence
study and state supported home schooling programs."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 346 - See HESS minutes dated 3/15/02.
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Jim Foster
Assistant Superintendent
Galena City Schools
Galena, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Dr. Ed McLain
Deputy Commissioner
Department of Education &
Early Development
th
801 W 10 St.
Juneau, AK 99801-1894
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concern about SB 346
Mr. Ken Truitt
Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
PO Box 110300
Juneau, AK 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed legal concerns with SB 346
Ms. Joan D'Angeli
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Ms. Pat Chapman
Ketchikan, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346 but asked that it be amended
Ms. Leba Griswold
HC 60 Box 4493
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Mr. Mike Wilcox
PO Box 198
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Ms. Ruth Abbott
HC 60 Box 4225
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Ms. Jeanne Wilcox
PO Box 198
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Mr. Phil Holbrook
HC 60, Box 3240
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Mr. Art Griswold
HC 60, Box 4493
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Ms. Svetlana Malyk
PO Box 258
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Mr. Russ Bowdre
PO Box 1048
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346 but suggested amendments
Ms. Beth Abbott
HC Box 60 Box 4225
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
Mr. Dan Beckman
Superintendent
Delta Junction School District
Delta Junction, AK 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 346
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-21, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRWOMAN LYDA GREEN called the Senate Health, Education &
Social Services Committee meeting to order at 1:37 p.m. Present
were Senators Leman, Wilken, Davis and Green.
SB 346-SCHOOL DISTRICT CORRESPONDENCE STUDY
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN stated that the committee began discussing SB
346 on Friday but was unable to hear from all participants who
wished to testify, therefore testimony was extended to today. She
informed members that a proposed committee substitute (CS),
Version C, is before the committee. Version C includes Amendments
1 and 3, which were adopted on Friday.
SENATOR LEMAN moved to adopt Version C as the working document of
the committee. There being no objection, the motion carried.
SENATOR LEMAN told members that Version C also contains Amendment
2 and, because Alyeska Central School is included in the bill and
is governed by DOEED instead of a school board, the words
"governing body" were substituted for "school board" on page 2,
line 2.
1:40 p.m.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN said she received a letter from Greg Miller of
Family Partnership expressing concern about the previous
reference to "home school." She asked if that concern was taken
care of in Version C.
SENATOR LEMAN said it was. He indicated that Version C has a
parallel construction to existing statute so, to the best of his
knowledge, the provisions in Version C should be consistent with
existing practice.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN took public testimony.
MR. JIM FOSTER, Assistant Superintendent of the Galena City
School District, stated support of the bill. He noted that he has
been working with Dr. Holloway and Dr. McLain and has had a lot
of input into the proposed regulations. He said the Galena City
School District is in close to 100 percent agreement with the
proposed regulations. He said he does not believe this
legislation strays as far as some have cautioned.
DR. ED MCLAIN, Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Education
and Early Development (DOEED), informed members that he asked Mr.
Truitt, the assistant attorney general, to prepare some comments
on concerns he stated at the last meeting. He thanked Mr. Foster
and Mr. Knutsen (ph) and staff for the work they have done on the
proposed regulations. He believes the new regulations address
various concerns that have been raised yet provide guidance for
excellence in correspondence studies.
MR. KEN TRUITT, assistant attorney general, Department of Law
(DOL), said that Senator Leman stated it is his intent to make
the current workdraft consistent with, and mirror, existing
statute, but DOL does not believe it does so. Version C is placed
in a section of the statutes in Title 14 that deal with the state
board's powers and duties. The language in Version C asks the
state board to allude to powers and duties of the local school
district boards. DOL believes it would be more consistent with
existing statutes to put some of this language in the provisions
that deal specifically with school district powers and duties.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked where that would be.
MR. TRUITT said in AS 14.08.111 - the duties of the regional
school board, paragraph 9; or AS 14.14.090 - the duties of school
boards, paragraph 7. He pointed out those two statutes are
identical to each other. He noted the most recent statute that
deals with charter schools, AS 14.03.255, exempts a charter
school from a local school district's textbook program,
curriculum and scheduling requirements.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if any section of statute pertains
strictly to statewide correspondence.
MR. TRUITT said the only place a district-offered, statewide
correspondence program is mentioned in existing statute is in the
finance statute, AS 14.17.430, which specifies that those types
of programs receive 80 percent funding.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN maintained that the committee should either
create a new section or dovetail it into something that
distinguishes that it is for statewide correspondence.
MR. TRUITT said that would be one way of doing it. He then said:
This bill is kind of like instructing myself to say
that I can only say that Dr. McLain has a red car and,
if in fact, he has a green car, the fact that I have to
acknowledge that he has a red car doesn't change the
color of his car. We're talking about in this bill the
powers and the duties of local school boards and it
would be more proper, more consistent, to put this kind
of language in their statutes that deal with their
powers specifically. Here it's just kind of an allusion
to - that the state board has to take into account
certain powers that aren't right now in those existing
statutes.
SENATOR LEMAN said he agrees this language could be placed
elsewhere in statute, but the point of the bill is to give
direction to the board and DOEED. The bill was drafted to respond
to a direction that many in this legislature believe is
inappropriate. He stated:
Doing it where it is - it's just making a very specific
statement. I don't disagree but we could go into other
areas of statutes and probably - makes a little more
sense, does to me too, to put those in there but in
this particular case it makes it fairly easy just to
direct the board as to what it's powers and authorities
and what it can do. I don't think it does disservice to
the other sections and I don't think it's inconsistent
with existing practice and I don't believe it creates
ambiguities that would cause any problems with - even
though you didn't mention it, it was mentioned last
Friday - with accreditation. So then I say, what's the
problem? I don't think there's a problem with having
it here even though we could pull it and put it
somewhere else equally as well.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked Senator Leman if he prefers that it remain
as is.
SENATOR LEMAN said he doesn't particularly care but it works the
way it is drafted and gives direction to and puts restraints on
the board, which he feels is appropriate.
1:52 p.m.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if there is anything through line 8 of
Section 1 that is inappropriate for the state board to be doing.
She then commented that she believes everyone knows what the
committee is trying to do but she does not know the best place in
statute for the new language.
MR. TRUITT said this bill will create two different sets of
statutes that deal with the powers of a school district and they
don't match up. The rest of the statutes that he mentioned
earlier do not specifically deal with home designed courses. SB
346 will say the state board must acknowledge that this power
exists and the statutes that create those other powers do not
mention these types of courses.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if Mr. Truitt is referring to AS
14.08.111.
MR. TRUITT said that is correct, as well as AS 14.14.090 - duties
of school boards. He indicated that AS 14.03.255(a)(1) probably
best describes what this process is about - it says that charter
schools are exempt from a local school district's textbook,
program, curriculum, and scheduling requirements.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked Mr. Truitt if he is suggesting that a
separate statute be set up.
MR. TRUITT said no but, if he had a magic wand, the language in
the charter school statute is the clearest of the statutes that
deal with this topic. He also recommended that the committee
amend AS 14.14.090 and AS 14.08.111 to incorporate this language.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked Mr. Truitt to explain why keeping Version
C as is will create confusion. She noted that Version C provides
instructions to the state board of education.
SENATOR LEMAN added, "On how to write regulations, on how to
implement the law."
MR. TRUITT replied that Version C instructs the state board to
take certain school district board powers into account when it
adopts regulations that deal with correspondence schools. He
further explained that it instructs the state board regarding the
powers of local school boards. He noted Version C contains
material that is not in the statutes that create the powers,
duties, and responsibilities of school districts. Therefore, in
the statutory scheme, the most appropriate place to discuss what
duties and powers the local school districts have is in those
specific provisions that deal with school district powers and
duties. He added this bill is a hybrid that alludes to powers
that are not currently on the books in those other sections so
that is where the inconsistency comes into play.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked what the downside of doing it this way
would be.
MR. TRUITT said if this gets enacted into law, the statutory
scheme in Title 14 will be inconsistent and ambiguous.
SENATOR LEMAN disagreed that this bill will create inconsistency
within the statutes because some of the powers are implied
through powers that already exist.
DR. MCLAIN said this bill was introduced in response to the
public comments received about the proposed regulations. A large
number of those comments pertained to dissatisfaction with board
review or approval of textbooks and materials. He said he is
still not clear about whether the new section (a) is meant to
replace the local board approval process. He held it will be very
unfortunate if, in six months from now, there are
misunderstandings about the duties of local boards.
2:03 p.m.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked how placing that language in another
statute will address the problem of a deluge of questions about
the proposed regulations to implement statewide correspondence
schools.
DR. MCLAIN said the large number of comments received by DOEED is
what led the department to further amend the proposed
regulations. He said the regulation process is designed to get to
that level of detail. He said DOEED wants to use the regulations
and statute to foster the very best programs. He is concerned,
however, that SB 346 minimizes regulation to make it possible to
run programs that are not in the best interest of Alaskans. He
added that DOEED intentionally put those regulations out for an
extended period of time to allow for public debate and get a lot
of input. The amendments that DOEED intends to put out will be
substantial and he will recommend to the state board that the
comment period be extended again to make sure DOEED has it right
the second time.
SENATOR LEMAN maintained that the language in SB 346 is no
different from what is in AS 14.14.090 so he sees no ambiguity.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked where, in statute, the primary powers of
the state board are listed.
MR. TRUITT replied AS 14.07.170.
DR. MCLAIN suggested that if the duties in the bill are meant to
simply mirror what already exists, they do not need to be
restated. Local districts already have an implied authority to
approve courses so replication is confusing. He said in 133 of
150 comments, the writers did not want local school boards to do
the approval yet that is a basic thing that boards do. If the
intent of SB 346 is to not require local school board approval,
it runs afoul of AS 14.07.050. He explained that he fully
understands that boards do the approval through whatever process
they set up, but that is already stated in AS 14.11.090. He
repeated that to duplicate that duty makes it appear that SB 346
is different and creates an ambiguity.
MR. TRUITT stated that AS 14.07.060 provides the board with
regulation adopting authority; AS 14.07.075 creates the board as
the head of the department; and AS 14.07.030 describes the powers
of DOEED.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN said that she understands the issue and intent
and will find a resolution. She then took public testimony.
MS. JOAN D'ANGELI, a home school parent, stated disappointment
with DOEED's regulatory process for the following reasons. Her
home school (Cyber Link) was given an application to renew under
the proposed regulations before the hearings had begun or the
comment period had closed. After legislators found out, DOEED
required Cyber Link to reapply under last year's regulations. In
addition, two months ago, she received a statement from Cyber
Link saying that students should be immunized immediately or
leave the program. She had previously been given a two-year
exemption and then was told to rush to a clinic. She said her son
has no in-class exposure. She has been concerned because Dr.
McLain told Cyber Link that his long term goal is to align Alaska
with Pennsylvania's home school laws. She said she would feel
better about DOEED's proposed regulations if Cyber Link was
allowed to be part of their creation.
MS. D'ANGELI stated support for SB 346 and informed the committee
that she had some proposed amendments to the bill. Regarding the
purchase of curriculum items, Ms. D'Angeli clarified that Cyber
Link is not allowed to purchase anything until an individual
education plan that describes what is to be purchased is signed.
Materials with any religious significance are not allowed. She
said she was upset with an onsite review because DOEED did not
want Cyber Link to use Calvert because of religious overtones.
She said Calvert provides a complete curricular package that
helps students on benchmark exams. She said she did not know it
had religious content until she was told by Dr. McLain. She found
the religious part to be on music tapes, which she does not use.
She said she was shocked when DOEED protested its use. She
offered to show the manual to committee members. She then
explained that one of the proposed amendments would require
immunizations for students who take one or more classes in a
public setting, but not for students who learn at home.
2:20 p.m.
MS. PAT CHAPMAN, a parent of an IDEA student living in Ketchikan,
stated support for SB 346 but said the local board has set up a
procedure in which the contact teacher and parent work together
to choose curriculum. She asked committee members to amend the
bill to say that DOEED cannot impose regulations on a statewide
school district, home school, or correspondence study program
that are not imposed on the regular school district.
MS. LEBA GRISWOLD, testifying from Delta Junction, stated support
for the home school program. As a senior, she has found that home
schooling has more to offer than public school.
MR. MIKE WILCOX, testifying from Delta Junction, stated strong
support for SB 346.
MS. RUTH ABBOTT, testifying from Delta Junction, said she has
been a home school parent for 12 years and strongly supports SB
346.
MS. JEANNE WILCOX, testifying from Delta Junction, stated support
for SB 346.
MR. PHIL HOLBROOK, a home school parent from Delta Junction,
stated support for SB 346 and said he speaks for the other
members of the Holbrook family who were prepared to testify.
TAPE 02-21, SIDE B
MR. ART GRISWOLD, testifying from Delta Junction, said he
believes the position stated by Dr. McLain and the assistant
attorney general, is an attempt to destroy the home school
program and regulate it out of existence. He believes the
concerns expressed are a smokescreen to delay the bill so that it
cannot pass this session. He asked members to take action on the
bill and clean it up later if necessary.
MS. SVETLANA MALYK, testifying from Delta Junction, stated
support for SB 346.
MR. RUSS BOWDRE, testifying from Delta Junction, said he likes
what SB 346 does to retain parental responsibility. He believes
that parental responsibility is being eroded through regulations.
He suggested adding the words "state funded" between the words
"statewide" and "correspondence" on page 1, line 5 and on page 2,
line 7.
MS. BETH ABBOTT, a home schooled senior, stated support for SB
346.
MR. DAN BECKMAN, superintendent of schools in Delta Junction,
informed members that he appreciates the attention given to
statewide correspondence programs. His district operates the
Delta Cyber School, a charter school, and an in-district
correspondence program. He believes the direction is clear from
the Legislature, Congress and President Bush that the most
critical issue facing correspondence programs and public schools
in general is that programs must be accountable, which requires
assessments to be done. He pointed out that he has learned from
extensive experience with correspondence schooling that parental
involvement is vital to student success. He said he believes
accountability of the curriculum is the responsibility of the
local school board. Regarding immunization, he said he believes
the intent of the Legislature was to have all children immunized,
not only those who attend school. In addition, he noted that the
Delta School Board has approved Calvert as an acceptable
curriculum. He noted the State of Alaska used Calvert in the
1950s and 1960s. He offered to answer questions.
MR. MICHAEL DAMMEYER, testifying from the Mat-Su, said he
listened to Dr. McLain's testimony on Friday about Amendment 2,
and believes that DOEED is deliberately twisting the situation by
requesting the contents of SB 346 be moved from a statute that
does not require school boards to select the curriculum directly
into a statute that does. [Much of Mr. Dammeyer's testimony was
inaudible.] Currently, a school board can let anyone select
curricular materials. He said that most people do not realize how
bad the education system has become over the last few years,
which is why a lot of correspondence schools have come into
existence. He said that over half of the engineers in Alaska are
from foreign countries because we are unable to produce the local
talent. He said he believes DOEED is trying to stifle innovation
and stated support for SB 346 and the amendments.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Mr. Dammeyer to elaborate on his comment
about test scores.
MR. DAMMEYER said that test scores across the country show that
the education system is not doing well.
SENATOR WILKEN said he would send Mr. Dammeyer a report of the
statewide test scores on the high school qualifying exam and how
students who attend correspondence schools compare. He pointed
out that the Fairbanks school district graduates 98 percent of
its students and scores on all benchmark exams exceed statewide
and nationwide averages. He maintained that the Legislature's job
is to make sure that every child in Alaska has an education when
they leave high school that enables them to perform in society.
He indicated that he wants to encourage innovation but he does
not want to find 20 years from now that the experiment was a
failure, which is what the proposed regulations are about.
MR. DAMMEYER said that over half of the engineers that he
currently works with are from other countries. These people were
imported because the talent is not available in the United
States.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
SENATOR WILKEN said when he worked on education reform three
years ago, he was involved in discussions about the authority of
school districts. He asked where a school board would get
statutory authority to represent students residing outside of
that district.
2:40 p.m.
MR. TRUITT said there is no statutory duty requiring a school
district to provide education services outside of the district.
Districts are permitted to offer optional programs through
DOEED's regulations. The only reference to statewide
correspondence programs is in the finance statutes (AS
14.17.430).
SENATOR WILKEN asked if the lack of explicit authority does not
prevent local school boards from representing students outside of
the district.
MR. TRUITT said that is one of the "sticking points" that Dr.
McLain has been addressing. He noted that AS 14.09.070 speaks
about the introduction of textbooks and materials into the school
curriculum, so to the extent that school services are offered to
students outside of the district, he would assume that the
district's correspondence program undergoes the same procedure as
in-district programs. He acknowledged that Senator Wilken's
question about where the duties reside is a good one.
SENATOR WILKEN commented that during previous work on education
reform two years ago, there was talk of auditing out-of-district
correspondence schools because those programs had grown from 1500
to 9,000. One out-of-district school had jumped from zero to 1700
in two years. He noted that DOEED did the audit and published a
white paper and from DOEED's concerns came the proposed
regulations. He said it seems like the Senate HESS Committee is
starting at the end. He pointed out that legislators are not
hearing from the people who feel the system is working fine -
legislators are hearing from 100 well-intentioned, well equipped
home school parents. He indicated there are 8,900 other students
and the regulations are designed to make sure no child is left
behind.
DR. MCLAIN explained that his involvement in this issue began
when he was assistant superintendent of the Kenai Peninsula. That
district had become rather aggressive in terms of trying to do
something new with its correspondence program to become
responsive to some of the issues discussed today. He was then
asked by DOEED to join its team to review two programs that
differed in key ways - size and structure. He was not a district
employee at that time but he did have experience evaluating and
accrediting learning experiences outside of the school walls in
both Wrangell and Kenai. During the review, two sets of concerns
were raised. The first surrounded mechanical issues, perhaps
because of the fast growth of the programs. The second involved
philosophical issues. It became apparent that the program went
far beyond what was originally conceived. The issue of
responsibility of instruction was raised, which is the
responsibility of the parent, but also a responsibility of the
state.
He was named as deputy commissioner of DOEED in July of 2001, and
in September a meeting was held. Two competing forces became
apparent - one group said it did not want to be treated
differently from others and one claimed a need for special
allowances because of its uniqueness. DOEED wants to allow for
both but is concerned that as programs go forth with innovation
to new grounds, standards be in place to assure accountability.
He believes accreditation is valuable for any school but more
valuable for home schools. He encouraged programs to adopt
procedures that would assure or be consistent with accreditation.
He repeated that he became concerned that safeguards be put in
place.
DR. MCLAIN said he has heard repeated stories of how well home
school students are doing, and he believes that many are, but he
was surprised to find students from the three largest
correspondence programs, Alyeska, Galena-IDEA and Nenana Cyber
Links, had a lower percentage of students who scored in the
proficient range than the statewide average. He believes Alaska
is on the edge of a very good set of programs and options, but
maintained that the portrayal that correspondence programs are
the panacea is not accurate. He stated that his interest is not
to restrict.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if all public schools in Alaska are
accredited.
DR. MCLAIN said the majority of Alaska's elementary schools are
not accredited, as well as the overwhelming majority of smaller
schools throughout the nation. There are two ways to get
accreditation. A regional association looks at the inputs -
teacher quality, the library collection, policies and procedures,
and other accreditation agencies look at outcomes. In either
case, an accredited school has real advantages, particularly for
home schools. When a student attends an accredited school, that
transcript carries unquestioned weight when transferring or
applying to another school. School administrators know that
transcript is one of quality. He pointed out that many elementary
schools in Alaska are not accredited so there is general
acceptance when students are transferred. There have been cases
where parents whose children used correspondence programs found
out after the fact that those credits were not acceptable to
other institutions because the correspondence program was not
accredited.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if accreditation is required in Alaska.
DR. MCLAIN said it is not.
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if every high school in Alaska is
accredited.
DR. MCLAIN said, "Certainly not the smaller ones."
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN said she does not want to hold up a standard
that is not held by others. She then asked Senator Leman and Dr.
McLain to discuss the issue and come back in a few days with a
resolution to either leave the controversial language as is or
place it in another statute. She then announced that DOEED will
give a presentation on Wednesday about the minimum expenditure
for instruction requirement placed in SB 36 several years ago.
DOEED will update the committee on the waiver process and other
information. On Friday, DOEED will give an overview on the ESEA
implementation and the McQueen School issue.
SENATOR LEMAN asked that DOEED provide a response to his concern
about DOEED's fiscal note in the near future.
With no further business to come before the committee, CHAIRWOMAN
GREEN adjourned the meeting at 3:02 p.m.
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